Bulk ageing in glass

[robwrx]

Recently, on an American wine forum, I read an interesting thread that really rather concerned me. The thread basically asked the question how long can you safely age a wine in a glass carboy and the answers got me wondering if I've been doing it wrong for the last 18 months.

The consensus of opinion seemed to state that it is pointless and possibly detrimental to the wine to bulk age in anything other than a wooden barrel. It would appear that wine will only age if micro oxygenation conditions are present and that cannot happen through glass. Micro oxygenation can happen correctly through a cork bung but (and I was surprised to find out) wine can receive too much oxygen and spoil through a water filled airlock. It is something to do with the transfer of oxygen molecules through water.

Wine will also not age in a glass carboy if a bung is used that seals the wine completely from the atmosphere. The thread went on to say that if the wine is finished and clear then it should be in either a wooden barrel or in bottles.

All of my wine is currently bulk ageing in either glass demijohns or carboys plugged with either water filled airlocks, solid rubber bungs or plastic Safety corks.

So the questions are, what are people's views on this and should I be bottling all my finished wine or ditching all my rubber bungs and using cork on everything that is bulk ageing.

Rob

[lockwood1956]

The Ozzies are starting to experiment with ageing in HDPE


you ask 25 winemakers, you will likely get 28 different answers.


Barrel ageing is great (but V expensive here in the uk)

I wouldnt use cork....to open to spoilage

go with what works for you

regards
Bob

[Cellar_Rat]

you ask 25 winemakers, you will likely get 28 different answers.

Bang on.

I have had a tinker with this. Carboys storage IMO is NOT detrimental. Wine is always working and it needs 'some' oxygen to do that.
These are my findings.
Glass is less gas permeable - wine does mature - but just much more slowly. I don't bung tight - I have HDPE breather caps.
I use 25l HDPE jerry cans (wine from the same batch) to bring wine on quicker - it works. 3 - 6 months is good.

What IMO was been missed is wine is different as the volume changes. 300L of the same wine works differently to 54L and is DEFINITELY different to 5L and of cause 75ml.
I think the trick is not to be air-phobic.

I also agree with Bob - defo not cork - on the small thought, consideration should be to keep the atmosphere dry (not damp).

[robwrx]

Ok so no corks then!

I think I will replace all the water in my airlocks with SO2 and stick with using airlocks and rubber bungs in my DJ's.

Not sure yet what does work for me but as an example of what possibly doesn't work, last year I made a Kenridge Classic Chardonnay that was bulk aged in glass for 6 months with a solid rubber bung sealing it completely. Having racked 2 gallons into DJ's I bottled the rest. I tasted a glass at this point and was really disappointed. The wine was bland, had no depth or bouquet and it left an almost metallic after taste in the mouth. It tasted like no Chardonnay I had ever tasted before and I seriously thought it had been a complete waste of money. I opened a bottle after a month and it tasted no better. After a further 4 months in the bottle the wine is now just starting to taste a little like a Chardonnay and the metallic taste (kit taste?) is starting to dissipate.

Can I assume that having done all my racking under vacuum and sealing the carboy completely that I inhibited the ageing process so much that it wasn't until I bottled the wine that the ageing really started?

Brian! Any chance of a link to where you got your HDPE breather caps from?

Thanks for the replies.

Rob

[Cellar_Rat]

absolutely no corks. If you hard bung a 54 L carboy you will lose it by the end of the year. Temperature varies volume (this is why aeroplanes take on fuel by in pounds the not in gallons). 54 L is a lot of expansion if you have temperature fluctuations and especially if you have any secondary or unwanted fermentation.

If you have ever seen a broken 54 L carboy you will notice how thin the glasses at the widest point.

Sorry I cannot get you a link to HDPE breather caps - they come in from Italy with the grapes.
DSC00341.jpg
....but just to tease you here is a photo of what I'm on about

[winemanden]

Think about it. What difference apart from size is there between a glass bottle and a glass carboy.
If glass is good enough to lay down vintage wines for years, why not glass carboys?
Barrels may be good for some wines but eventually it will end up in glass.

Regards to all, Winemanden.

[rjb222]

I think I will replace all the water in my airlocks with SO2 and stick with using airlocks and rubber bungs in my DJ's.


A much better solution would be Vodka. This will inhibit any bacterial growth. Vodka will not not evaporate quite so quickly. If you do happen to get a suck back then there will be no flavors passed on no infections passed on and your wine will be just slightly fortified.

[Cellar_Rat]

Yup vodka is best for wet airlocks.

[Emeraldclaire]

cork.jpg
This is what I use, though I can't remember where I got them from. And now I can't find any more! They are known as 'safety bungs' and let CO2 out whilst protecting the wine. I always bulk age in glass demijohns using these bungs, having had some DJs expel a cork in the past. General opinion is that wine ages better in bulk, so 1 gallon is better than 1 bottle. And it takes up much less space until I am ready to bottle it. There's a technical explanation in my book [about the scientific facts behind wine making], but I am not sure I can explain it!

[Duffbeer]

Safety bungs are great for 1 gal d/j's, though will not fit 5 gal carbouys.
Airlocks with vodka & glycerine work well.

[Cellar_Rat]

Safety bungs are great for 1 gal d/j's, though will not fit 5 gal carbouys.
Airlocks with vodka & glycerine work well.

What does the glycerin bring to the party? - or is this a security device that'll blow somebody's hand off if they try to steal your DJ's

[ToulouseLePlot]

I get my safety bungs on eBay... same as the ones in emeraldclaire's picture

[Emeraldclaire]

I've just realised that I don't know the difference between a demijohn and a carboy. Help?

[Rich]

difference between a demijohn and a carboy. Help?

5 Gallons for a carbouy, (Usually, sometimes upto 54 litres)

or a 1 Gallon Demijohn.

[Cellar_Rat]

I don't know what a 5 gal is but a 10 gal (54l) in a tamijohn (tammi gianni)