Ben Turner vs CJJ Berry

[Lord Lucan]

Hi all
I have made wine for many years using Ben Turners books...he wrote all the Boots winemaking books many years ago. Having just acquired a CJJ Berry book, The Bible for many, I am confused. Turner uses lots more ingredients, whereas Berry's recipes are very basic. For example, Turner's blackberry wine has grape juice concentrate, citric acid, tannin etc but Berry's has only blackberries. Surely these other ingredients are essential? Would love to know what you all think....

[Duffbeer]

In all honesty CJJ Berry was a twonk, the methology in his books is fine, but his recipe's have a lot to be desired, his main problem is the massive sugar additions and like you state the lack of concentrate or grape base. The most to be expected is fruit flavoured firewater.

Stick with the Ben Turner Book or try 'making wines like those you buy' by acton & Duncan.

[Lord Lucan]

Hmm. Well, out of interest I am making CJJ Berry's blackberry wine as per recipe, but I am also making my usual blackberry port and also a rather nice recipe from Judith Irwin's book because I know they work. I picked enough blackberries to experiment.

[kirk]

Blackberry's have a fair amount of tanin in them anyway. Also they are often acidic so no real need to add citric acid. For some you don't need to add citric acid eg for rhubarb you often need to add chalk to reduce acid.

So for blackberry there is no real need to add tannin or acid, the fruit has enough of both itself. Other fruits will need one or the other and some both. Look at the fruit being added.

Grape juice, really your choice. Throw it in, leave it out.

Think that at the time CCJB books came out that you couldn't go easily to a supermarket and buy Red, White or most other juices as we take for granted now. When I made wines initially you were fortunate to get one wine yeast, now I can pick 20 different varieties. So the situation is different now. Ben Turner is likely taking advantage of what is the present situation.

Go get Bill Smiths book and there is another method of producing homemade wines.

I have read winemaking books that require a chemistry lab, not just add tannin or not add tannin. A US site if you do not measure every last parameter and do it accurately, acid level to within 0.1 of the specified Ph is expected, then you are not doing it right.

Pick the one you get along with and use that one.

If in a year your CJJB wine comes out very good, whose approach will be right, BT's or CJJB's ?

[fatbloke]

Hmm. Well, out of interest I am making CJJ Berry's blackberry wine as per recipe, but I am also making my usual blackberry port and also a rather nice recipe from Judith Irwin's book because I know they work. I picked enough blackberries to experiment.

Well if you have a dig around here, Bob produced a modified version of the CJJ recipes using much less sugar and if I remember correctly, updated some of the other ingredients too......

Just don't recall where abouts he posted them......

[lockwood1956]

Here it is

http://www.winesathome.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?3985-Updated-CJJ-Berry-Recipes&p=64110#post64110

[SleepyDave]

Think that at the time CCJB books came out that you couldn't go easily to a supermarket and buy Red, White or most other juices as we take for granted now.

It's right that the methods are a product of the time. I remember in the very early days of my first interest in the hobby, reading Duncan and Actons new recipes with frustration because grape concentrate was simply impossible to obtain in my neck of the woods.

I recently found this manual from the early 1800's.http://books.google.co.uk/books/down...Dpdf%26hl%3Den
He uses the natural yeast from the fruit and most of the wines only use one or two pounds of fruit and a pound or so of sugar to the gallon probably giving a final alcohol of around seven or eight percent, with some residual sweetnes, when the natural yeast gives up. He then fortifies up to maybe ten or eleven percent with brandy.
Fascinating stuff. It's clear he has some knowledge of yeast because he adds it to ginger wine where there is unlikely to be any natural yeast.
He has some other interesting techniques, like using beetroot to add colour to red wines and crushing some of the stones of his damsons and other stoned fruits.
I'm really quite tempted to experiment with a few of these.

[Lord Lucan]

Thanks you

Here it is

http://www.winesathome.co.uk/forum/s...4110#post64110

[Lord Lucan]

I have read winemaking books that require a chemistry lab

I have an old book called The Scientific Practice of Wine Making (or something like that). You need a phd in science to understand it, but some of the bits make sense when you concentrate. Which isn't often...I just do what works for me, although sometimes I do like to know WHY.

[godfrey]

of all my books I like winemaking the natural way by ian ball the best

he has a few pages on good health and he lists lots of ingredients that can be used in country wines with their medicinal or heath benefits

he also uses natural substitutes for chemicals and has a sugar free option for every recipe

I think it is out of print now, but there are a few copies on eBay