Heron Bay retailer

[BottleShock]

I visited a wine shop that deals in this particular brand of kit in Indianapolis last weekend and he was pushing 5 gallon carboys for the 6 gallon kits. Everyone, he said enjoys the wine better when it was made 1 gallon smaller, thus stronger. I have problems with this, not the least of which is that when I buy a kit that makes 28 bottles, I want my 28 bottles.
What does everyone think of this practice?

[lockwood1956]

Interesting

Did this guy say why people are enjoying it this way?

I wonder what the starting S.G. is with 1 gallon (US) less water

more fruityness I wonder?

regards
Bob

[genie]

I think that the 6 gallon kit was actually 6 Canadian gallons/5 Imperial gallons although I would have thought that in US you have the same measures as Canada.

The advantage of adding less water would be to produce a much richer, fuller bodied wine. However this wine would need around 6 months more maturing than the standard version. In fact some manufactures (Winexpert for one) give two options for some of their kits allowing for a higher quality result. I must say i haven't actually tried the lesser volume variation and would be interested in the opinion of anyone who has.

[P cuthbert]

Under no circumstances should you make a 23 litre kit to 19 litres. This throws the acid balance way off, and will result in an unsatisfactory wine.

It will also void any warrantee the maufacturer provides.

Genie;

I must disagree with your statement that Winexpert offers a choice in the instructions. They insist that the kit be made up to full volume. The kit is designed so that up to 900 ml of water may be used to top off later on if required.

Pat

[lockwood1956]

Seem to remember a while ago someone mentioning that you could do this with Heron Bay kits, but definitely NOT Winexpert



From Winexperts website copy of the kit instructions



Quote:
Top up fermenter to the 23 litre (6 US-gallon) mark with cool water. Stir vigorously for 30 seconds.
NOTE: Making the kit to a full 23 litres (6 US gallons) is crucial to the functioning of the fining agents and stability of the finished wine. If you make it to any other volume, it will not turn out correctly, and any problems you may experience may not be solvable.

[lockwood1956]

From Heron bays website kit instructions

Quote:

6. Fill primary fermenter to the 23 litre mark with cool water and stir
well for 1 minute. The temperature should range between 22° - 27° C
(71° - 77° F). If the temperature is too warm, cover the primary and let
stand until correct temperature is reached.

[lockwood1956]

I think Pat is right, it is not mentioned at all in their explicit instructions, and if it is not sactioned by the company themselves you will void your guarantee.


To Quote Tim Vandergrift (technical services manager for winexpert)......follow the instructions omitting no detail no matter how small.....

regards
Bob

[Hippie]

I agree with Pat and Bob. I made a Bergamais kit to 5 gallons a few years ago and it never did get as good as the same kit I had made to the full 6 gallons before it. I still have 2 or 3 bottles and the last one I opened 6 months ago was still out of balance. I don't think 'out of balance' will age out. It is 4 years in the bottle now.

[BottleShock]

These were 6 gallon American kits. What I don't understand is if this dealer says the kits turn out better with less water, then isn't he saying the kits are not right as is? Inferior? Who wants to buy something that you have to go against the instructions to make. It was disappointing as there are not that many dealers available in that area.

[P cuthbert]

I would steer clear of the advice from that retailer, or at least check it out here before you follow through on it.

[lockwood1956]

Please don't let this guy put you off the Heron Bay products which are very good indeed, and there is also lots of free advice on Heron bays website.......as well as here of course

http://www.heronbaywines.com/cgi-bin...isplay_faq=yes


regards
Bob

[lockwood1956]

Have been looking back over old winemaker mags, there was an article on gold medal winners in competitions, they all followed the instructions to the letter.

perhaps drop Heron bay an email, im sure they will be interested.
or drop an email or PM to Frank Raposo of Heron Bay....he is a member here (FrankWine)

[genie]

Actually, thinking about it, it wasn't Winexpert, but Wine Art/Heron Bay which gave the option of two volumes (19l + 23l). My wrist is available for slapping! I should have known as I have just bottled one of their limited editions from '04, Cab Sauv/Tempranillo and that did suggest a 19l option. I did of course make it up to 23l as more bottles is always more fun! Also as some of the bottles end up with customers it is important the wine is made to its usual spec.

I agree that the balance of the wine would be altered by the lesser volume of water being added, which is why I was interested in the comments of anyone who has actually done it.

[Talking of Limited Editions, Bob, have you been tempted by any this year?]

[lockwood1956]

Yup
I'm taking the reds, also trying the Vineco specials too.

only just started that Scicilian Primitivo Syrah I got from you last year,(hope it will be ok)
Also racked my Sangiovese grape wine today (120 litres), and adjusted So2 Levels, tasted......hmmmm still a tad harsh but I think it will turn out nice. need to find time to rack the 2nd run lot. so much wine so little time.

cheers
Bob

[Curt]

BottleShock,
What that dealer is telling you, in a round about way, is that he doesn't do kits and has a very limited knowledge about their workings. Like Pat stated, I'd be very leery about any advice he gave. This shouldn't be a reflection on Heron Bay kits, just his knowledge of them.