How to get more body in the wine?

[madmatt]

Well guys, it's been about 5 years I reckon since I posted here asking if kit wines are ok nowadays and having a go with a few kits. Up to now, Beaverdale Barolo, and chateaux du voi have been my favourite, I have also tried merlot and a few others from the Beaverdale range, along with a kenridge classic Barolo.
I, personally really love my own wine, but don't force it on others when visiting(always have a bought bottle in the rack for guests) although when friends do come over, I ask their opinion, and although generally complimentary the common conclusion is that the wine is not full bodied enough.
Now, before I started making wine my favourite tipple was chateaux Neuf du pape(rarely bought as about £15 a bottle) but now I find my taste has changed and I prefer my own wine to shop bought.
(And the fact it works out at about £1.70 a bottle)
My question to all is this, is there a way of making wines more full bodied in these 'mid-range' priced kits? Adding sultanas etc maybe?

I have just ordered 2 kits, both kenridge classic, as they have more juice than Beaverdale, so should have fuller bodied results, one called Trilogy, and one Cabernet Shiraz. Both recommended by reviews and the helpful staff at creative wines.
I don't expect the body of the £15 pape wine, but something closer to a bought merlot bottle at say £5 would be nice. Feel the answer is to go for a more expensive kit maybe, say a selection kit, but this starts to defeat the object.
Looking forward to your replies
Matt

[rjb222]

There are varying opinions about kit wine tweaks. Here is my opinion. I make around 1500 kits a year in my business. You get what you pay for in quality. I have tried adding raisins grape concentrate glycerine. These are the preferred methods to build body in kit wines. I have found through practice if you are looking for more body more complexity then buy a better kit. The difference in price is nominal in the price per bottle price for the quality you get. If you tweak a cheap kit all you really do is change it flavor. Kit wines are pre-set for body acid color. Body in wine comes from the quantity and the quality of the fruit used to make the wine. The better the quality of the ingredients the better the body in the final out come as long as good fermentation practice is followed. Better quality concentrate and juice are used in higher priced kits. It basically breaks down like this the bigger the box the kit comes in the more quality concentrate and juice is in the box the more you pay for the kit. Just one opinion I hope this helps.

[madmatt]

Thanks for your reply. I did suspect that would be the answer. How can we determine the quality of the concentrate? Surely not by the price alone?

[rjb222]

The way it works with the kit company I sell for which is RJSpagnols. The bigger the box the less the wine has been filtered and concentrated the better the quality the ingredients in the box. So in effect yes it is price governed as these are the more expensive kits. The more expensive kits also take longer to prepare and to mature as they are again more juice than concentrate. I can not speak for all kit manufactures but I do know people from both RJSpagnols and Wine Expert personally. When discussing the kits manufacturing with these people at guild functions they both tell me the same thing quality ingredients cost more it is these quality ingredients that make the wine some thing to take note of when finished. These kits are more natural in flavor and profile. I hope this helps. This is a huge area to discuss and a limited space to put it down in. But it sums up to be like this the bigger the box the less the ingredients have been fettered with the better the quality of the ingredients used to make the product the better the end product will be.

[madmatt]

Many thanks for your replies rjb. Very interesting. I hope you are right about the bigger the box, the less the juice has been concentrated/the higher price the better the quality. Seems a very unscientific theory. Would like some figures on the box personally to prove the concentrate is actually better quality. My local HBS tells me the selection international kits with skins would make a wine equivalent to £30 a bottle in the supermarket, now he also said the Beaverdale makes wine as good as £5 bottle. As posted originally, I really enjoy my Beaverdale Barolo, but the body really is nowhere near a £5 shop bought bottle, so I think my local HBS guy is just a good salesman! I will try a higher end kit next and report back. Both my kenridge kits are bubbling away nicely now so 2nd fermentation in about a weeks time!

[rjb222]

When you do this make sure to properly age the wine. Also If you top up the wine to bulk age use a wine not water. My research comes from years of experience and going to meetings and asking questions of the people that make the kits. I am not sure of the price break down in the UK but 30 (I don't have the mark for pounds on my computer) would work out to about $70.00 per bottle there is no way these kit wines will come close to that. With wine making the quality break down goes like this as long as there is a good vintner making the wine. From Grapes Longest lasting in the bottle best body best wine. Juice next in line not quite as good as from grapes but a very good wine. Kits about the same step down from juice as juice is from grapes. The reasoning to this is the product is fettered with the more you fetter with the product the more you alter or remove certain phenols and sediments containing acids ETC from the product. That is why grape wines from fruit are the standard every one shoots for. Also the more natural and un-fettered with the longer things take to mature and show their quality after the edges come off. this is all dependant on the quality of the starting product IE the grapes and how they are handled.

[NorthernWiner]

I would also suggest a sugar addition. Body relates in part to the "weight" and "mouthfeel," and part of this equation derives from the amount of alcohol. Kits typically produce a wine somewhere in the 11% to 11.5% ABV range. Most commercial wines are 12.5% to 14%.

[NorthernWiner]

My local HBS tells me the selection international kits with skins would make a wine equivalent to £30 a bottle in the supermarket, now he also said the Beaverdale makes wine as good as £5 bottle.

Of course he is going to tell you that!

There is a saying: Who are you going to believe... those who want to SELL you the truth, or those who want to TELL you the truth?

[rjb222]

I would also suggest a sugar addition. Body relates in part to the "weight" and "mouthfeel," and part of this equation derives from the amount of alcohol. Kits typically produce a wine somewhere in the 11% to 11.5% ABV range. Most commercial wines are 12.5% to 14%.

What Steve is telling you is that The Glycerine derived from fermentation will increase mouth feel which is true the difference here is the balance of the kit is set you will change the profile of your kit wine plus you void any warranty associated with the kit when you alter the ingredients. It is a way to increase the mouth feel and weight but the wine will change in flavor. Better quality kits will come in after ferment at around 12.5 to 13% They have a higher starting gravity and more fermentable sugars. Most commercial wine get to the higher alcohol percentage through barrel ageing. This concentrates flavor and alcohol by giving away a potion to the air though the staves of the barrel. The addition of sugars is also a common practice in the forms of sugar its self and the addition of concentrates. Again the quality of the sugars used is also reflected in the wine price as the better concentrates are more expensive. Wine is about balance of body alcohol colour and acids.

[NorthernWiner]

Most commercial wine get to the higher alcohol percentage through barrel ageing. This concentrates flavor and alcohol by giving away a potion to the air though the staves of the barrel.

Not entirely. Yes, barrel aging can concentrate the alcohol somewhat (Although not always. Depending on the humidity in the external environment, you may actually lose some alcohol through evaporation). But the primary reason for higher alcohol is because premium red wine grapes are typically picked at 23-25 Brix. Most lower quality kits read around 19-20 Brix.

By the way, there is a great article here by Tim Vandergrift, who was the technical service manager for Winexpert for many years. Even he says a modest sugar increase is sometimes beneficial.

https://winemakermag.com/459-make-your-kit-wine-shine

[madmatt]

Great replies! Many thanks to all. Very interesting. I keep extensive notes for all the kits I make(about 10, 30 bottle kits up to now) and they come out at between 11.5 & 12.5% alc.
Am I right in thinking even a budget bottle(£5) from tesco is made direct from grapes and not juice, so there will be no way of getting equivalent body from a kit?
Thanks again. Absorbing reading
Matt

[Cellar_Rat]

Am I right in thinking even a budget bottle(£5) from tesco is made direct from grapes and not juice, so there will be no way of getting equivalent body from a kit?

yup sure is.

[rjb222]

Great replies! Many thanks to all. Very interesting. I keep extensive notes for all the kits I make(about 10, 30 bottle kits up to now) and they come out at between 11.5 & 12.5% alc.
Am I right in thinking even a budget bottle(£5) from tesco is made direct from grapes and not juice, so there will be no way of getting equivalent body from a kit?
Thanks again. Absorbing reading
Matt

I have not tried the wine in question but I can say this. The quality of the grapes used in making the wine in the bottle or the kit will have a direct effect on the body of the wine. Grapes are different quality depending on areas grown and as well the micro areas in a vineyard. This goes for the kits as well as the commercial wines. There are also other factors involved with the vintner. How long the wine is exposed to the skins cold soak or not. The use of different extraction methods and fermentation style Carbonic or not. There are many things that effect body. Again I must state that there are ways to increase the body in any wine sugar addition being one. If you do this with a kit you will void any warranty the manufacturer has. That is not to say these things are not done without success nor that they should not be done I just feel that is prudent to let any one know up front where the manufacturer stands on such things.

[madmatt]

I can't see me adding sugar to the kit. I have a feeling that could definately ruin it. Personally I wouldn't want to artificially add body. Also with the kit guarantee unless when I open the juice bag I can tell the juice is off then I would always blame myself for poor results first without blaming the kit. Do much can go wrong, I doubt anyone has used this guarantee ??

[rjb222]

I can't see me adding sugar to the kit. I have a feeling that could definately ruin it. Personally I wouldn't want to artificially add body. Also with the kit guarantee unless when I open the juice bag I can tell the juice is off then I would always blame myself for poor results first without blaming the kit. Do much can go wrong, I doubt anyone has used this guarantee ??

It is not often but in Eight years of business I have replaced couple kits. The manufacture was good for the kit. Over the last few years manufactures have stepped back from the old policy we replace the kit even if it was the makers fault. It used to be if for any reason a kit was not good the manufacturer would replace the kit at no cost to the consumer the Idea was we want the customer to have success. The step back started about the same time as the economy turn down. Now you need your ducks in a row to claim warranty. To claim a warranty now you need to have the date code the place of purchase the starting gravity and the final gravity. You also need to send a sample in o the warranty department upon request. When you call the 1-800 number on the instruction sheet they will ask you all the above questions and at their discretion you may need to send in a sample of the wine. in my 8 years in business I have found 3 kits that did not meet parameters when I set them up and a few of the skin kits with mold on the skins all of these were taken care of quickly and with out hassle. So yes the warranty is important and manufactures do honor that.