Young Elderberry Wine, steamed or squeezed

[WVMountaineerJack]

Ive done 2 experiments with elderberry wine last year and this year. last year we steamed 50 pounds of elderberries to make 6 gallons of wine, just using the pure juice. Its one of the best elderberries we ever made, very mellow on the tannins and drinkable young!!

On newyears day this year we used 32 pounds of frozen elderberries for 10 gallons of wine, macerating the berries in pectinase overnight. We then filtered the must through a fermentation bag, squeezing the bag tight, and discarded the pulp. We used pasteur red and it took off. I tasted some after racking it last month, its already good but still cloudy.

Both methods limit the amount of tannins released, or maybe the steaming changes them some how, and both are fruity and smooth. These are much better young than the typical ferment on the pulp for a week style elderberries.

Crackedcork

[fatbloke]

Ive done 2 experiments with elderberry wine last year and this year. last year we steamed 50 pounds of elderberries to make 6 gallons of wine, just using the pure juice. Its one of the best elderberries we ever made, very mellow on the tannins and drinkable young!!

On newyears day this year we used 32 pounds of frozen elderberries for 10 gallons of wine, macerating the berries in pectinase overnight. We then filtered the must through a fermentation bag, squeezing the bag tight, and discarded the pulp. We used pasteur red and it took off. I tasted some after racking it last month, its already good but still cloudy.

Both methods limit the amount of tannins released, or maybe the steaming changes them some how, and both are fruity and smooth. These are much better young than the typical ferment on the pulp for a week style elderberries.

Crackedcork

It's worth digging through Luc Volders Blog as he has some very valid comments on elderberry brews, particularly about using heat to process the fruit.

Last year, I just heated the appropriate amount of fruit for a gallon (with the water) and then strained/pressed it. Now I have a steam juicer so will be using that this year. If nothing else, it will save the effort of having to completely de-stalking pounds and pounds of berries, and should make considerably less mess!

regards

JtFB

[Her Lushness]

I've been keeping notes on the amount of fruit I use in my steam juicer, and what the yield is in order to do a proper write up at some point for everyone.

So far I've found that steam juicing 4lbs of elderberries for about 60 mins produces 1600ml, therefore 1lb of elderberries produces approx 400ml of elderberry juice.

I know I'm possibly being geeky here, but I know I'll find it useful in the future when I look at a recipe for say 3lbs of elderberries (or whatever fruit) and be able to look at my notes and know how much juice to add rather than fermenting on the pulp.

The other advantage for me is that I can store the juice in sterilised kilner jars which leaves more room in the freezer for other stuff... although having said that I also have some frozen juice in there now (frozen in the equivalent of 1lb of fruit blocks) which takes up less space than the original fruit did, so as far as I'm concerned, it's a win win situation!

I also seem to remember Bob saying that he'd never go back to fermenting on the pulp after getting his steam juicer, especially for elderberries.

PS - The best thing about steam juicing is the lack of effort and mess!

[goldseal]

So how many lb of elderberries would you steam for a gallon of full bodied wine (e.g port)?

I ask because I have an unused steam juicer, and a few lb of elderberries in the freezer

[Her Lushness]

So how many lb of elderberries would you steam for a gallon of full bodied wine (e.g port)?

I ask because I have an unused steam juicer, and a few lb of elderberries in the freezer

At the risk of sounding facetious it depends on your recipe;

One port recipe I've used was Bob's one for English Port that I added brandy to last weekend, and it's showing great promise. That recipe takes 2lb of elderberries, but a straight elderberry wine I'd recomend about 3lbs of fruit as per this recipe

I've also made a straight elderberry wine, and blended it with an overly sweet tinned blackcurrant wine, oaked it and added a bit of brandy that has come out a treat, and is probably one of our favourite wines to date, so by that reckoning you could perhaps do an elderberry and blackcurrant experiment?

[goldseal]

At the risk of sounding facetious it depends on your recipe;

One port recipe I've used was Bob's one for English Port that I added brandy to last weekend, and it's showing great promise. That recipe takes 2lb of elderberries, but a straight elderberry wine I'd recomend about 3lbs of fruit as per this recipe

I've also made a straight elderberry wine, and blended it with an overly sweet tinned blackcurrant wine, oaked it and added a bit of brandy that has come out a treat, and is probably one of our favourite wines to date, so by that reckoning you could perhaps do an elderberry and blackcurrant experiment?

Sorry, I didn't phrase my question too well

I believe that you need to use more fruit if you choose to use a steam juicer. So, for instance, if you used 4lb the traditional way, how much would you now use?

[WVMountaineerJack]

50 pounds of elderberries to make 6 gallons of wine, got to remember the sugar takes up some room and its easy to dissovle the sugar in the hot steamed juice. We start out with frozen berries thaweed overnight. My rough guess is we get about a gallon of juice from 10 pounds of fruit, but I dont really keep good records of that part. Crackedcork

[goldseal]

OK, cheers

[Zebedee]

Dont forget that its American gallons.

So I would think you are looking at about 12lb for one of our gallons

[goldseal]

So ... we need roughly treble the amount of fruit, or have I got the wrong end of the stick?

[Zebedee]

Looks that way if you are making with pure juice

[Her Lushness]

So ... we need roughly treble the amount of fruit, or have I got the wrong end of the stick?

Well, I may be wrong here too, but I'm assuming/have assumed that you use the same amount as you would if you were fermenting on the pulp.

By the time the fruit comes out of the steam juicer, there's only shells left and all the fruit kind of collapses in on itself so I'm assuming that all the juice has been steamed out, therefore, IMHO, you'd use pound for pound.

So far the wines I've made making the above assumptions have turned out as I would expect them to.

Where's Bob when you need an opinion on something!?

[Mamgiowl]

There's a post somewhere on this forum which I've been trying to find but it is another one that appears to have gone off in a huff.

Anyway, I seem to remember Bob saying that for pressed fruit you used 400gr to the litre and 600gr if the fruit was steamed. I may have got the figures wrong but it was words to that effect.

Bob'll be along in a minute to clarify I expect.

[WVMountaineerJack]

Dear Her Lushyness, we have also done pound for pound thru the steamer but it lacks a little of the body you get if you were doing a pulp fermentation. What really got us started was we made some jelly from elderberries with the steamer and couldnt believe the fruitiness of the jelly, I assumed due to the lower tannin levels or bitterness from seeds etc. So I figured if I did a 100% steamed juice, not pound for pound, we would be able to capture that fruity taste. We grow our own elderberries, somewhere around 80 or so, so getting berries isnt a limiting factor.

We also did a 3lb/gal where we basically maserated the fruit for a day, squeezed out the juice and discarded the pulp on Jan 1 of this year, it already tastes good but still hasnt cleared, no bitterness at all, again I guess do to less tannins being released.

My only concern is that they wont have enough tannins to age a long time but time can only tell.

Crackedcork

[Her Lushness]

Thanks for your reply, it's reassuring to know that I've not gone completely insane just yet

I suppose the optimum method would then be to add some of the skins to the must after juicing in order to get more tannins in the wine - I'll certainly bear that in mind the next time I use elderberries.

I loved the photos of your elder trees - I didn't know that there are so many different varieties of tree, so I've learnt two things today already!