ph of fruit wines?

[fullmoonwinery]

i've read that the pH for reds should be 3.2-3.5 and whites 3.0 to 3.2 but what about fruit, particularly tropical fruit?

i ask because i just started a papaya wine and before i added acid it was about 4.5. i added a lot of acid blend (about 4tsp) and juice from 8 limes and it still at 3.7 (in a 23ltr batch).

i don't want to keep adding acid in case i mess it up and maybe there's something in the mix that's buffering the pH at this point? i don't know, i failed chemistry miserably.

do you think i should keep adding acid or live with 3.7? what would a good target pH be for papaya, mango, passion fruit, banana, etc?

by the way, i started a mango the other day and got that to pH of 3.3 with about 3tsp of acid blend. oh, i just noticed that TA as Tartaric (ppt) for papaya is 1 and mango is 5, and similarly for TA as Sulphuric (ppt) is 0.7 papaya, 3.3 mango, so it makes sense that i have a high pH on papaya i guess. still like to know if i should try and lower it.

thanks, steve

[fatbloke]

i've read that the pH for reds should be 3.2-3.5 and whites 3.0 to 3.2 but what about fruit, particularly tropical fruit?

i ask because i just started a papaya wine and before i added acid it was about 4.5. i added a lot of acid blend (about 4tsp) and juice from 8 limes and it still at 3.7 (in a 23ltr batch).

i don't want to keep adding acid in case i mess it up and maybe there's something in the mix that's buffering the pH at this point? i don't know, i failed chemistry miserably.

do you think i should keep adding acid or live with 3.7? what would a good target pH be for papaya, mango, passion fruit, banana, etc?

by the way, i started a mango the other day and got that to pH of 3.3 with about 3tsp of acid blend. oh, i just noticed that TA as Tartaric (ppt) for papaya is 1 and mango is 5, and similarly for TA as Sulphuric (ppt) is 0.7 papaya, 3.3 mango, so it makes sense that i have a high pH on papaya i guess. still like to know if i should try and lower it.

thanks, steve

Right, I'm no expert.

Yeast likes and "acid environment", fine.

Anything lower than 7 pH means it's acid, above is alkali and the "magical" 7 is neutral. Again, fine.

There's lots of debate about whether you'd need to add acid before the ferment or after ferment.

Then there's the measure of TA (titratable acidity? I think that is). A testing kit produced for the US market gives results expressed as tartaric acid, whereas I understand that kit's here (UK) will give a result expressed as sulphuric acid.

So http://www.winesathome.co.uk/forum/s...ead.php?t=2007

http://www.winesathome.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?t=2005

http://www.winesathome.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?t=2000

are the 3 guides/tutorials that should help some.

Myself, as mainly a mead maker, I tend to just put a single teaspoon into my musts, as honey can do some very strange things with pH levels during ferment. If I had to pick a number to go with, then it'd be 3.5, but I still have to check with the pH meter during the ferment, as the chemical changes that happen, can sometimes cause it to drop below 3.0 pH.

There are those, who say that as long as the must is below 7 pH, then it's good to go as you can always add a little acid later to modify the taste/pH.

I can't see anything wrong in that logic but there will be those here that will probably be able to shoot it down in flames with the proper reasoning.

Don't know if any of that will help or not, as I say, I make mainly meads....

regards

jtfb

[fullmoonwinery]

here's an update on my story.

i have an acid test kit which i've never used, preferring the digital pH meter because its easy. so i opened the test kit and ran a test and i get 0.25% tartaric acid. the test kit says fruit wines should be .55% to .65% tartaric acid.

so i added 250mL of lime juice (citric) and 5tsp of cream of tartar (tartaric) and all it did was change pH from 3.8 to 3.7 and TA from .025% to .35%. (note that i didn't add malic acid because it sounds like that's the primary cause of bitterness in wines unless there's MLF, plus the acid blend mix is expensive)

i'm feeling that because papayas are so alkaline, i'm never going to get close to a pH of 3.4 and TA of .55% without a ridiculous amount of acid, so i think i'm leaving it alone and hoping for the best unless someone convinces me otherwise.

we'll see if the yeast kicks off in a day or so, its champaign yeast so it hope its pretty powerful stuff.

i'll update on the taste in a month or so.

steve

[granda]

one quick question where can you buy acid test kits ( i cant get them in ireland) or can you use litmus paper instead. thanks

[fatbloke]

one quick question where can you buy acid test kits ( i cant get them in ireland) or can you use litmus paper instead. thanks

my guess would be check out the UK based online home brew places.... as that's gonna be the nearest - postage/shipping-wise....

regards

jtfb

[fullmoonwinery]

one quick question where can you buy acid test kits ( i cant get them in ireland) or can you use litmus paper instead. thanks

i buy almost everything here

http://stores.ebay.com/The-Bruhaus-Brewing-And-Wine-Supply_Testing-Measuring-Supplies_W0QQ_fsubZ11432906QQ_sidZ451246572QQ_trksidZp4634Q2ec0Q2em322

his shipping costs are low on multiple items and he always ships same or next day so i usually get stuff in about 1 week, even in Thailand.

[lockwood1956]

one quick question where can you buy acid test kits ( i cant get them in ireland) or can you use litmus paper instead. thanks

No....

litmus papers are not anywhere near accurate enough

[fatbloke]

No....

litmus papers are not anywhere near accurate enough

Plus the link is to ebay in the US. Surely there must be a localised version for Ireland, or at least it'd probably be cheaper to ship from the UK.

I think that my pH test meter was about £30 (and it wasn't the cheapest one I found at the time).

So while the € is up against the £ it's probably the cheapest option for granda

regards

jtfb