Starting a big batch of bramble and elder

[piagio2000]

Well big for me anyway!
I have ten pound of each so will start a five gallon batch.
Last year I fermented on pulp in the traditional way and used Gervin number 2 yeast.

I'm wondering this year if anyone could suggest a better yeast that would be good?
As it happens I have been "hibernating" my Gervin 2 culture in the fridge for 5 or 6 months now, even though It seems to have sprung to life again tonight with a bit of apple juice, would it be recommended to use again after so long in the fridge?

On top of that..I have been reading some of the threads on juicing elder berry's...I have a centrifugal one which I haven't actually used yet. Would it be worthwhile juicing all 20 pounds of fruit for this five gallon batch? And if so, would I add the pulp as well in a straining bag for body?

[kampervan]

juicing with a steam juicer is the way to go as it removes pips and a fair bit of the tannin. i picked 20lb yetserday 20 mins to pick 4 hours to destalk. juiced and have 12 lts juice. only got 4 lb brambles as someone else seems to have found my patch. but do have a freezer full of frozen juice. would be wary of juicing centrfugally as it crushes the seeds, leading to bitterness. If you dont have steam juicer just put in bucket with pectolase and sulphide for a day before starting, breaks down the cells

[solly]

As it happens I have been "hibernating" my Gervin 2 culture in the fridge for 5 or 6 months now, even though It seems to have sprung to life again tonight with a bit of apple juice, would it be recommended to use again after so long in the fridge?

Its not recommended to keep the yeast longer then about 6 months.

http://www.winesathome.co.uk/forum/s...33&postcount=5

[lockwood1956]

I'm wondering this year if anyone could suggest a better yeast that would be good?

Lalvin K1V-1116 would be my choice, but the Gervin 2 will do nicely

As it happens I have been "hibernating" my Gervin 2 culture in the fridge for 5 or 6 months now, even though It seems to have sprung to life again tonight with a bit of apple juice, would it be recommended to use again after so long in the fridge?

Being in the fridge wont hurt it, as long as it hasnt been too long, but you should be fine at 6 months.

On top of that..I have been reading some of the threads on juicing elder berry's...I have a centrifugal one which I haven't actually used yet. Would it be worthwhile juicing all 20 pounds of fruit for this five gallon batch? And if so, would I add the pulp as well in a straining bag for body?

Like Ian says, I wouldn't use a centrifugal juicer on them, it will bust the seeds. I you haven't got access to a steam juicer then pulp ferment, there is no point in juicing and then adding the pulp, you would gain nothing from that, may as well just pulp ferment. Pop all the fruit in a mesh bag so you can dunk it in and out of the must a couple of times a day to extract the goodies. (dont squeeze the bag)

regards
bob

[piagio2000]

Thanks for the tips.

I have just started it off in the traditional manner. Froze then thawed the fruit and steeped for a day and a half with pectalose. Just tonight made up to 1.080 and added 5tsp acid, nutrients and pitched the yeast.

As this is my first 5g batch the logistics of that have thrown up a few questions.

I wondered about the volume of the fruit. By that I mean if I top up to 5 gl on the scale on the bucket the volume of the fruit surely means the must is a fair bit less? Would that be correct?
To counter this I made up about one and a third of a gallon in a smaller bucket, taking some of the pulp as well to ferment on. I'm thinking that once I take the pulp out I can mix them together again.
That sound about right?

On top of that I have a question about draining the straining bag. Obviously it weighs a tonne if I try to lift it up out the bucket. With that amount of fluid and fruit in it, does any one have any handy tips on how to suspend that above the bucket when the time comes to remove the pulp? I know I shouldn't squeeze it, so the solution is to leave it suspended...but how?

The other thing I'm a bit worried about is the bucket itself. It's a youngs bucket with a wire handle. There is some weight in it as you can imagine. Does anyone know just how safe those handles are? As I carried it upstairs earlier I couldn't get the thought of five gallons of dark red must going everywhere. Are these quite well made and can I carry it with confidence?


I'd appreciate any advice...this is the first time doing more than one gallon!

[lockwood1956]

To counter this I made up about one and a third of a gallon in a smaller bucket, taking some of the pulp as well to ferment on. I'm thinking that once I take the pulp out I can mix them together again.
That sound about right?

Yes it does

On top of that I have a question about draining the straining bag. Obviously it weighs a tonne if I try to lift it up out the bucket.

once the time comes to lift it out, it will be much lighter than it is now

Are these quite well made and can I carry it with confidence?

Yes again

[piagio2000]

Thanks for that!

The last one especially about the handle has set mine (and especially the wife's!) mind at rest!

[piagio2000]

So the wine is now out of the primary and in the secondary.

When it came to draining the bag I had tp thread a metal coat hanger through the top of the bag and wrap the other end round a pair of step ladders to suspend the bag. Does anyone have any handy hints on a good way to suspend the straining bag for future reference?

Also, now the brew is in the secondary ny thought shave turned to the dreaded de-gassing.
Is it worth while buying a whizz stick for my drill? Or is a few days of rattling a long spoon around in it just as good?

[spritzer]

Is it worth while buying a whizz stick for my drill? Or is a few days of rattling a long spoon around in it just as good?

I would say it is most definatley worth buying a whizz stick....its one bit of kit I couldn't be without

[kampervan]

have a wizz stick but hardly use. if in better bottle just get a kids super bouncy ball and put under better bottle. when you go past just swirl a few times, works a treat. and yes i leave ball under better bottle for a week

[goldseal]

I have to agree with Kampervan.

I have Whizz-Sticked a 5 gal Better Bottle to death, then given it a shake with a ball underneath (with about 4 litres removed to another fermenter to allow it to slosh around). It has released masses more CO2.

My vote is shaking - 1 or 5 gal batches. It's cheaper and good exercise too

[piagio2000]

Cheers...I'll give the shaking a go first then! (though it is a Toungs fermenter rather than a better bottle)


So now I have another question (fair racking up omn this thread I know!)

On Tuesday night I did a second run with the fruit. So that was ten pounds each of elderberry's and brambles.
I added five litre of red grape juice and sweetened to 1070.

I had done second runs on my gallon batches last year and they were drinkable over the summer and very ice, so all well I thought.
On reading my notes last night though I see that I actually took the fruit from two batches to make one gallon on a second run last year.
So the question is this....will there be enough "oomph" left in my 20 pound of fruit to make my second run decent? Or should I maybe threw some elderberry's in now while I still can? I have fresh and dried.

Appreciate any advise...obviously 5 gallon is a lot if it turns out incipid and thin.

[goldseal]

The general rule-of-thumb is to halve the 2nd run batch size. I think you might be a bit short of body.

If you are, all is not lost. I knocked up a really light red 'BBQ' wine from 2nd run grape skins last year, using grape juice and tinned strawberries and raspberries. After fermentation was complete I stabilised and back-sweetened (to around 1.006 I think).

It is a great summer wine, served cool or chilled, rather in the style of an Island Mist kit.

So, think about chucking in a few tins of strawberries and raspberries

[thelurch]

When it came to draining the bag I had tp thread a metal coat hanger through the top of the bag and wrap the other end round a pair of step ladders to suspend the bag. Does anyone have any handy hints on a good way to suspend the straining bag for future reference?

Im doing my first wine this year, I have 3 x 5 gallon blackberry and elderberrys on the go!

I used an old photography tripod to suspend the mesh bag with long cable ties from the top of the tripod down to a smaller one securing the mesh bag closed, this sat above the bucket and drained.

Seemed to work for me

[Cellar_Rat]

As it happens I have been "hibernating" my Gervin 2 culture in the fridge for 5 or 6 months now,

Freeze it - you don't have to feed it or maintain it and it last for ages !! Just used some 2007 cider yeast. Added as an ice block, it thawed out and made a smashing brew.