Vitamin B

[TStarr]

Enough of the easy questions ........ as I have been making a few batches in past 2-3 wks, I tried to keep a yeast culture going in a flask - KV 1116 - saving 100ml, topping up to 400 with water, and addding tspn of sugar, pinch of citric, and pinch of yeast booster - then feeding with a half spoon of suger daily - each time I added any sugar it fizzed beautifully - BUT then I discovered Vitamin B, and from reading up it seems most beneficial in helping yeasts for fruit wines, almost like a yeast booster, but without explanation as to how they differ.

So in goes a tablet - whoosh goes the bubbles - and thats virtually the last activity I have managed to generate from the yeast since!!

I gave it a little more sugar, even split the bottle in 2 and topped each up to 400 in case alcohol too hgh - but barely a flicker.

Where did I go wrong - was it the Vit B? was one tablet too much for 400ml or should I just have not used it? should I have been giving the yeast something more substantial to chew onlike some must, or is that only just prior to using as a starter?

Because I was reusing it weekly, I didn't chill flask in fridge - would that help if not using for say 2-4 weeks, or with that sort of gap it's time to start afresh with new yeast?

[lockwood1956]

Bitamin B1 is a yeast energiser.....


a good nutrient will contain B1 and also mineral salts a yeast needs, perhaps your starter has reached a high alc content, because you have been feeding it sugar? (i suspect this is the case)


try making a fresh one, and instead of feeding it sugar daily, once it has consumed the sugar, just let it sit dormant, that way you are not building up a high alc concentration in your starter. The yeast will sit happily in the fridge till some new sugar appears. but dont feed a starter with sugar.

you would also be better served buying a good quality yeast nutrient....like vitamon or tronozymol...you are running K1V-1116 (a ferrari among yeasts, and you wouldnt run a ferrari on parrafin, would you? )

regards
Bob

[lockwood1956]

Forgot to add....


once the yeast reaches its alc tolerance it dies..... even though you halved the batch, you cant bring it back to life.

regards
Bob

[TStarr]

Thks Bob - I did use some yeast nutrient as well initially - part of my confusion being that some recipes refer to using both, as though they do some slightly different job.

I guess I have alc'd it to yeast heaven - but now I am slightly confused - How do I get my yeast to grow (ie back from 100ml to a full blown 400ml, ready for the next batch and splt) but not ferment itself to death?

[goldseal]

From what you said in your first post, you are feeding it sugar. If you feed it a solution of sugar and liquid (eg water and/or grape/apple juice)you will dilute that alcohol, so it should never get that alcoholic.

[David]

BUT then I discovered Vitamin B

Thought it might be worthwhile checking whether it was a 3mg Vit B1 tablet from an HB shop, rather than a 100mg one from a health food shop, that you used because if one of the latter was put in 1 litre it would be like adding 150 of the former to a gallon of wine. Can too much of a good thing be bad for yeast?

[TStarr]

The Vit B was one of Young's tablets - suggests 1 or 2 to the gallon - but my 400ml flask did get the whole thing. I added sugar only because I had topped up my original 100ml left overs from the previous split, up to 400ml, and didn't want to create an even larger volume.

If I topped up with 300ml - or 1/2 a pint - and a gallon of wine can usually take 3lbs of sugar - then 8 pts = 48 oxzs, so 1/2 a pint = 3 ozs.
My yeast bottle had at most 5 teaspoons in - which appears to be only 1 oz.
So wouldn't it struggle to be alc'd out?

The most noticeable and visible difference was the way the fizz I was getting from adding any sugar or the Vit B, just stopped dead after the Vit B was added - can u give yeast a heartattack from too much excitement / good thing etc?

And is the only way to grow the yeast, to get it to ferment more sugar?

[lockwood1956]

start your starter........

use half of it in the first wine, and then take volume back to original size but only add a little sugar, and once you have added the first little bit of sugar and the yeasties eat it all....dont add any more......

till you add the starter to the next wine, then add a little more sugar, when yeasties have eaten it all, dont add any more...and so on

this way you are adding enought to grow the colony, but arent sugar feeding it so the alc content gets too high

make sense?

see here

http://www.winesathome.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?t=908

[lockwood1956]

The whoosh from the tablet going in was the CO2 being released from the starter (you created nucleation points by adding the tablet)

[lockwood1956]

and a gallon of wine can usually take 3lbs of sugar

According to CJJJJJ Berry.......


but you know what.....he was WRONG!

3lb of sugar takes your SG to1.108........way too high

[lockwood1956]

2.2lbs of sugar takes your SG to 1.080 (well 1.079 actually)


thats without taking into account any sugar present in any fruit added!!!!



you need a rethink re sugar additions dude

best regards
bob

[TStarr]

Oh wow - I hadn't read before about the CJJ problems, though I was following a recipe from P Curtis's site, and he was heading for 3.5 lbs!! - I feel my new best friend is going to have to be my Hydrometer - I did put nearly 3lbs into some freshly chopped and mushed pineapples, and when i saw the hydrometer read over 1.11 I thought "oops, either eyesight going or hydro broken!"

So 2.2lbs is my new benchmark - add things gradually - and stop alc'ing my yeast to death! Many thks.

[Cellar_Rat]

In my opinion you perhaps bombarded it with stuff and it never had chance to catchup. Sugar granules will kill a yeast it must always be a solution (can't remember were I got that from)

I freeze my yeasts 200ml at a time, just by taking 'samples' from an active ferment on or around day 3.

No feeding, no mess, take it out of the freezer and chick it in the must when you want it again. Never fails.

[TStarr]

Following various suggestions, I was going to chill my samples in the fridge - freezing would be even better. Does freezing yeast in solution not kill it off - or I take it not enough to matter?