Elderberry explosion

[Original Mac]

Man, am I in the doghouse right now. Intending to make a 6 gallon (uk) batch I used 6 litres steamed elderberry juice 3 litres Beaverdale Cab Sab concentrate, 15 ml each of citric and tronzymol and used Vintners Harvest VR21 yeast. The grape conc by itself would have produced 2 gallons of very good cab sab and added enough sugar to take SG to 1090 leaving over a gallon of headspace for topping up. After one day I was a little concerned to see a rapidly rising frothy cap so taking no chances put the fermenter in the bath. Next morning I had the remains of an elderberry fountain and a very pink bath. The cap had blocked the airlock and the fermenter was bulging. When I cracked the cap it sounded like a bottle of beer opening! Soooo, racked into bucket and cleaned fermenter. Put 3 1/2 litres into a five litre fermenter, used 250 mls to start an elderberry and blackcurrant and returned rest to fermenter. Now seems to be settling down but froth still up to bottom of bung. Elderberry/blackcurrant (8 litres in 12 litre bucket) did exactly the same. SWMBO not amused and my stock of brownie points is at an all time low. Does elderberry always foam like this? I have used this yeast on other ferments and never had this happen. Any suggestions for alternative yeasts or anti foam agents as I have another 9 litres of elderberry juice to use. Next time I will start it in my 32 litre bucket but I think even this would have struggled to cope.

[TStarr]

Had my volcanoes with Damson and Apple - apple juice being worst - 2 gallons in a 4 gallon bottle and it still came over - Elderberry has been well behaved - used K1-V1116 on all - is it the amount of pectyn that you use which effects the musts ability to foam, or is it the yeast, or is it the type of fruit? Since I used same yeast on all surely it can't be the yeast.

[Mamgiowl]

I've had this happen too, but never so violently. General concensus was it was caused by too much nutrient - I'd added a b1 tab as well as Tronz.

My understanding is that some yeast do foam more than others, plus there's the temperature and other varients to consider.

At least you'd had it in the bath, Mac. Imagine the fallout if it had errupted all over the kitchen!

[ms67]

Low foaming is something i usually look for with yeasts (because space is tight here so mess is a disaster, and the less fiddling about with topping up etc the better - as far as i'm concerned).

The yeasts i use are
sauternes (not stated as low foaming in anything official that i have seen, but i never had a foam issue with it yet). i've made duplicate brews with GV2 and sauternes and the GV2 foamed like a rabid beast.
gervin d and vintners harvest MA33 (reliably informed they are the same), both were indeed low foaming.
(GV1; from my notes was not messy, but may have been manageable foam rather than low. the final result is not in yet as I haven't tasted the product.)

i like the results from all these low foaming yeasts, but i have a number of needs and wants from my yeasts that are not run of the mill. One of which is to match the yeast to my conditions (temp mainly), rather than alter the conditions to suit the yeast.

[Original Mac]

At least you'd had it in the bath, Mac. Imagine the fallout if it had errupted all over the kitchen!

ummmmm, did I mention the 12 litre bucket Okay, kitchen decorated when we moved in two years ago. Bungalow is a refurb project and all walls with new plasterboards and skim. Only saving grace (straw clutching time folks) is that the love of my life cannot decide on new kitchen. I have fitted many many kitchens for the lovely lady, all to her high standards (32 years married and many house moves = many new kitchens.....okay four new kitchens but all to her exacting standards. Current kitchen is old units reinstalled while awaiting a decision. You might think this a mitigating factor, I did. WRONG! Apparently very light mint green walls are not complemented by pinky splattery spots that will not wash off. Not helped by fact we are deep into diet country. Tried convincing her that wine #1 is in fact a fruit and therefore one of your five a day.......as I said, brownie points at an all time low. In fact if my brownie points were a limited company I would have to cease trading.


This is gonna cost me............



...This elderberry better be worth it.....


No pectin in either brew, did not think elderberry needed it

[Original Mac]

just perusing the VH website and

VR21 is an ethanol tolerant killer strain, capable of fermenting to 15% abv. ethanol. Good production of glycerol, low volatile acid production, zero sulphur dioxide formation and low foaming

Yeah....right

[fatbloke]

-----%<-----

No pectin in either brew, did not think elderberry needed it

I'd still use it though Mac, there's probably a smaller amount of pectin in it, but Pectolase helps (apparently) with colour and flavour, as well as breaking down the pectin that might be present - besides if it's not needed, it won't do any harm.......

regards

jtfb

p.s. Oh and from your original post, I wouldn't have used the nutrient straight away, as the fruit must/liquid bit probably had enough to get it going, then I would have added about half what you did after the fermentation was underway......

[Mamgiowl]

just perusing the VH website and


Yeah....right

Just goes to prove you can't believe everything you read.

However it has given you a 'get-out'.

Show it to your good lady and say something on the lines of:

"See, dear, I chose this yeast specially for its low foaming properties. It's not my fault if... " etc etc.


It might work

[goldseal]

Flash Spray with Bleach got all the Merlot stains out of our kitchen (and believe me, that stuff stains).

[Original Mac]

Flash Spray with Bleach got all the Merlot stains out of our kitchen (and believe me, that stuff stains).

just the job!

Took several goes and still not 100 % but brownie stock is rising

"See, dear, I chose this yeast specially for its low foaming properties. It's not my fault if... "

Mamgiowl, I have been married long enough to know that any sentence that contains the words "not my fault" only means it IS my fault. I think I'll quit while I am behind, thank you.

Now brews are settling down so took opportunity to have a closer look. SG in elderberry down to 1020 in less than a week and port down to 1035 in even less time. Suspect Trons could be a contributing factor. Topping up with enough sugar to equate to 1.080 at start for 6 gallons but will have to do this slowly as still a fair bit of foam. Elderberry/blackcurrant will be topped up with 1 lt beaverdale cab sab and 1 lt water. If I have done the math right it will equate to an sg of 1.115 and we will see where it finishes. Not too concerned over high sg as this is intended for port.

[WVMountaineerJack]

I had a carboy of elderberry spray a finished basement wall, fortunately for me the basement is mine, if it had been in the wifes kitchen I would have had to scour the walls at the same time administering a bottle or three to the wife She actually likes the pattern on the basement wall, now a collection of deep reds and purples from subsequent batches so she is a keeper but I learned a long time ago making wine in the wifes kitchen can be hazardous especially when a carboy drops off a counter and cuts her new linoleum floor!

Crackedcork

[lockwood1956]

I would start your ferments in a bucket, that way you don't have the same issues, just pop the lid on loosely, and even if it did ferment and bubble over, it cant block the airlock and cause pressurised blow out. Rack to DJ at around SG 1.010

you might want to consider adding the elderberry juice later too, to retain more of the "elderberryness" maybe add at the time of racking to the DJ

regards
bob