a question of acid

[godfrey]

I have still and was planning to add

3 tins of youngs red grape concentrate 245g
youngs oak chips 30g
1 litre of waitrose merlot grape juice

any of these may help or possible to make things worse ?

how much dilution for 4-5 gallons would you estimate to reduce 2-3 ppt

50g of chalk would be right on the button but I would prefer not

[lockwood1956]

I have still

Not understanding what you mean by this?

was planning to add

3 tins of youngs red grape concentrate 245g
youngs oak chips 30g
1 litre of waitrose merlot grape juice

any of these may help or possible to make things worse ?

I think it is time to sit and wait a little and work out what is going on..... adding further ingredients is not the way forward at this point until some thought on what one ois hoping to achieve is established I feel

how much dilution for 4-5 gallons would you estimate to reduce 2-3 ppt

50g of chalk would be right on the button but I would prefer not

Depend what you are diluting with.....

I stick with my original idea that diluting with grape juice might be the way to go, as it will also add vinoisity

regards
bob

[lockwood1956]

I know you said you gave up on following recipes some time ago.....

I think tweaking existing recipes is ok, but this isnt working for you currently, and I worry that you may become frustrated.

I think a little time to think about what you hope to make, and more time in planning how to get there is a better idea than keep adding and perhaps compounding issues.

Not stabbing at you or having a go, but it seems we are wandering off track and on the way to things not working, time to take stock, weigh up the advice given and establish a "plan of action" that is cohesive and makes sense to you, otherwise we might lose track completely of what has happened/is happening.

That could of course be down to my head being fried by a hard day at work

regards
Bob

[godfrey]

I have still = ingredients in stock, purchased for adding to this must


edit
not to phased by the progress to be honest

the acid in the raw must was a bit sour / tart
but I like sour and regularly eat raw lemon :-)

just trying to make the best possible
if I never bought the acid kit I would not know

if dilution is the answer maybe the 3 tins of grape concentrate
with a gallon of water

the water could only be added after removal of the pulp as there is not much head space with the pulp

[lockwood1956]

ahhhh

then it would appear that it IS indeed a hard day at work frazzling my brain

[lockwood1956]

it might be worth (or at least it might help me) to list the ingredients already present in the must, how many litres (or gallons) of must you have and any measurements you have taken already SG Ta etc

This might help clarify for me where we are at currently (I have I admit lost track a little) and help us to formulate a plan

regards
Bob

[lockwood1956]

This is what one should be (roughly) aiming for

RED AFTER-DINNER SWEET
The colour should be deep. Mature wines may have tawny characteristics but should display some red colour.
The flavour should be rich, fruity and vinous, the whole being mellow and mature. Acidity should be between 0.45% and 0.7%. The alcohol content should be from at least 14% to as high as may be achieved by fermentation, with higher levels allowable only if the schedule permits fortification.
The wine should be as sweet as the other characteristics will permit without becoming cloying. Although this wine is often called ‘Dessert’, it is meant for drinking after dinner.
Commercial examples for an unfortified class are the Greek Mavrodaphne of Patras (15% alcohol) or the sweeter versions of the Italian Recioto della Valpolicella, with Port (19-22% alcohol) for a fortified class. Some Tawny Ports are too light in colour to be ideal examples of after-dinner red sweet wine.
Similar to dry Red the flavour should be full and enjoyable, the Acidity will be higher to balance out the sweetness, (max 1.5 tsp per gallon) up to 6lbs of fruit per gallon may be used, but everything must be in balance. Too much sweetness without the acid in balance results in the wine being cloying. and unpleasant to drink. A start S.G. of 1.080 ferment to 1.010 and feed with sugar/juice to 1.020 up to twice and then fermented to dry is a good start point. The wine should have lots of body and mouth feel should be rich.

[lockwood1956]

not to phased by the progress to be honest

Excellent top banana

just trying to make the best possible
if I never bought the acid kit I would not know

Very true

if dilution is the answer maybe the 3 tins of grape concentrate
with a gallon of water

the water could only be added after removal of the pulp as there is not much head space with the pulp

You could perhaps turn this into two batches?

[godfrey]

the pulp is taking over a gallon of space in the must bucket

went in on Friday/Saturday in stages
so a few more days on the pulp and there will be plenty of space

my friend will be taking the pulp to make a few gallon of wine from

2 batches is possible I have FV's available

[lockwood1956]

it might be worth (or at least it might help me) to list the ingredients already present in the must, how many litres (or gallons) of must you have and any measurements you have taken already SG Ta etc

This might help clarify for me where we are at currently (I have I admit lost track a little) and help us to formulate a plan

regards
Bob

......

[godfrey]

over 16KG of fruit all weight after de-stoning,
frozen the fruit to aid juice extraction and defrosted

6KG of mixed berries of which
2KG elderberry,
2KG blackberry
the other 2 KG are raspberry, blueberry, blackcurrant

9KG of mixed plum of which
1.6KG damson,
900g green gauge,
800g Victoria,
3KG president
and the rest are unknown variety possibly Japananese plum

1KG grape from
600g of red wine grapes from my vine (picked too soon)
400g black beauty desert grape

2 litres of waitrose merlot grape juice

3 kilos of sugar and 3x340g jars of blossom honey
dissolved in 4 litres of water

SG 1.110

the recipe I (loosley) followed for 1 gallon was
2lb elderberry
2lb blackberry
2lb damson
or 6lb of any mixed fruit
1lb rasins
2lb of sugar and 1 litre of water

I guess any topping up is after removing pulp
and I have fruits enough for 5 gallon
so the acid may balance after removing the pulp :-)

I only have 1 kg of grape but 3 litres of grape juice (2 added) instead of raisins
I also have the 3 tins of grape concentrate that arrived today and think will benefit the must

I am keen to add the grape concentrate and oak chips ASAP
but if you think I should wait, I will

tonight the readings are
SG 1.080 down .015 from last night (1.095)
pH 3.3 up 0.1 from last night (3.2)
TA 6 - 6.5 - 7 ppm about the same, got a replacement sodium hydroxide on order (yesterday) as I seem to have used it all up lol
not exactly sure when to take the reading I know when it goes grey/brown and before it is purple
but that seems to be something between 6ppt and 7ppt

[godfrey]

Ahhhh

now this is interesting...

I can use my pH meter while acid testing !

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aQYHxudFJrA

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XstQOtL3H8E

[lockwood1956]

My advice would be to hold back on any additions at this point, you will stress the yeast

perhaps use the extra concentrate for sugar feeding later in the ferment, leave it to run till SG reaches approx 1.010 then feed sugar to raise to 1.030, allow to drop to 1.010 and sugar feed to 1.030 (perhaps one more time till yeast reaches alcohol tolerance, the concentrate additions at the end will reduce the acidity somewhat.

hope that helps
regards
bob

[godfrey]

nice, I like the idea of using the concentrate for sugar feeding

and the oak chips ? I was thinking to take them out with the pulp in 2-3 days
perhaps they will absorb some acid ?

I also see your logic in the sugar feeding
working from a general calculator...
1.110-->1.010 ~13%
1.030-->1.010 ~3% ------ > 3% X 3 ~9%

this will bring my ABV to around the tolerance level for GV4

and 1.030 is about 7% BRIX so if it stops,
it is not to much residual sugar, and may even be perfect

I think I will order a precession finishing hydrometer for the final stages...
I don't believe my refractometer is good enough,
with the minerals in the must, the line is blurred
this is a good thing, but makes it hard to read.
distilled water the line is pin sharp !

here is a photo of the current FV as requested



you can clearly see the pulp crust from the 20 litre mark to the 6 gallon mark

the ambient temp is 22 deg and the FV is 23-24 deg

[godfrey]

has anyone used the vinoferm acidometer ?

looks much easier than richies and measures in tartaric

http://www.thehomebrewcompany.co.uk/acid-test-kit-vinoferm-complete-p-1266.html

EDIT:
oh I just rememberd I also added 3 black bananas to the must no skins
on Monday night

EDIT 2:
just ordered the vinoferm acidometer