My new vineyard ....

[chris_b]

The city fathers have seen fit to allow me a small plot. I think I can get about 30 - 35 vines on it, and I'm planning to grow only red grapes, probably Regent, Rondo and something that "can't possibly work in the UK" to show my faith in global warming ;-)

But it needs some work ....

This pic is after a couple of afternoons clearing

Chris

... reaches for the glyphosate ....

[Duffbeer]

Looking good mate welcome to allotment/winemakers hehee enjoy the growing/ fermenting thing.

[fatbloke]

The city fathers have seen fit to allow me a small plot. I think I can get about 30 - 35 vines on it, and I'm planning to grow only red grapes, probably Regent, Rondo and something that "can't possibly work in the UK" to show my faith in global warming ;-)

But it needs some work ....

This pic is after a couple of afternoons clearing

Chris

... reaches for the glyphosate ....

How long did you have to wait Chris (if at all)?

Only because my local lot only have vacant lots right over the other side of "town", all the nearest ones have a waiting list.

Oh if I ever get one, it'd end up as an orchard

regards

John the fatbloke

[Hippie]

Be sure and have soil tests done. Tell them what you will be growing and ask for amendment advice. Also, if you have a way to dig it deep, it will be worth it in the long run.

Good luck, and congrats!

[lockwood1956]

Give Stuart and Elizabeth of the vine house a ring when it comes time to buy vines, they are wonderful people and the vines I have purchased from them were better than I'd bought at other places, they Will be happy to give you advice also.

You should be avble to grow just about anything that far south, mine do well up here in Yorkshire.
if you plant Rondo, you will need to be at them a lot, they are vigorous beyond belief.
Look in the resources section, there is a book in there in dowloadable pdf format...the mid atlantic grape growers guide.
Also have a look at Lon Romboughs site http://www.bunchgrapes.com

I have tons of info, give me a shout if you need anything.

and if you havent got one...hire a rotovator, it will be worth it.

http://www.thevinehouse.co.uk

be sure to mention winesathome

regards
Bob

[StockeyDAW]

what direction is the vineyard to be facing? Are you close to the sea - cooler evenings? if concerned with heat and warmth through the evening cold a large retaining wall be built behind the vines to collect and store some of the daytime heat? Soil tests very important and then as necessary amendments as might be necessary. Cheers hope it all works out great gardening hobby. As FB noted his for orchard. I would also consider some fruits such as cherries and berries and apricots. DAW

[chris_b]

Thanks all for your encouragement (my back tells me I shall need it after only two days digging out the blackberries)

I've already got a corner (well a fruit cage) in my wife's plot with a dozen 4 yr old vines in it, plus a few at home. They're on their own roots and I have a vigour problem already so I'm going to take some out and adjust the training system.

FB: I had to wait a couple of years for this plot. It's right up against the motorway so probably not the most desirable site, some of the other sites here have waiting lists of 40 or so. Allotmenting is getting more popular and sites are under pressure - one in the next town, Eastleigh, got built
on last year. You may have heard of that as the allotment society took the council to the High Court and lost the case.

Hippie: I'm planning on getting the tests done. When I partly retired in 2006, my colleagues clubbed together and sent me on a part-time course at an agricultural college where they have a viticulture dept and 3 vineyards. Their key advice is that it's all in the preparation, so I'm going to spend this year preparing the soil and getting the trellis at least partly in and not plant till 2009. If I can find someone who can get a plough on there so much the better to get the mineral corrections down deep. Else it'll have to be the biggest rotovator I can hire.

Bob: Thanks for the advice - I have the vinehouse down as one to call. I found the grape growers guide - very useful. Given I have a year to go, I might be able to specify the rootstock to control the vigour. I've heard the commonly used SO4 is still more vigorous than some, but I need some info on how that does here - are your Rondo on this one?

DAW: The plot runs NW - SE so rows down the length or straight across probably isn't ideal. Thinking about it a bit, if I angle the rows I can get more plants in than planting across (it's only about 4-5 yards wide). Southampton is a port on the south coast of the UK so the climate is pretty mild compared to where Bob is . I currently mix grapejuice with blackberries and/or elderberries in my wines so this is a natural progression to growing it all

Chris

[lockwood1956]

I have mine on SO4 but vigour is still an issue, you can almost see them growing, Stuart at the vine house has just planted 2000 on SO4, I'm going to volunteer one day a month up there next year.

training sytems......a tip i picked up is to have the tip of the cane lower than the headstock, again vigour control.

Are you going to cane prune? apparently its the best method for here, and Rondo do well on it.

I had a lovely crop this year but the bloody birds got to them while i was in America, they weren't ripe either, (so net early) however i got enough grapes (from 34 Rondo vines) to make 1 litre wine, it is intensely coloured and even at first racking was full bodied and fruity, so i have high hopes for next years crop.

[lockwood1956]

Just on a side note, being close to the motorway isnt the issue it once was, we are all on unleaded now

[fatbloke]

-----%<-----
FB: I had to wait a couple of years for this plot. It's right up against the motorway so probably not the most desirable site, some of the other sites here have waiting lists of 40 or so. Allotmenting is getting more popular and sites are under pressure - one in the next town, Eastleigh, got built
on last year. You may have heard of that as the allotment society took the council to the High Court and lost the case.

No, didn't catch the bit about the court case - shame really though. The pressures for local authorities to free up any available land for the development nazis is a real bind. Particularly here in the South East.

-----%<-----
DAW: The plot runs NW - SE so rows down the length or straight across probably isn't ideal. Thinking about it a bit, if I angle the rows I can get more plants in than planting across (it's only about 4-5 yards wide). Southampton is a port on the south coast of the UK so the climate is pretty mild compared to where Bob is . I currently mix grapejuice with blackberries and/or elderberries in my wines so this is a natural progression to growing it all

Chris

Having recently delivered a couple of lorry loads (artic - so take that as about 50 tonnes) of fencing stakes to the new vineyard just west of Petworth (next to the A272 - it's part of the Nytimber empire apparently), they have a south facing incline to the land (presumably desirable) and then they seem to be pointing the vine supports (the fencing stakes with 2 or 3 strands of wire to fix the vines too) in a South Westerly direction (as they're a grower/producer of sparkling white - I have to presume that they do have a bloody good idea of what they're doing).

Presumably you'll have to do that so that the lines of vines are pointing toward the prevailing wind (I'd guess Bob'd know more about that). It must be done for a reason - they could have just made the lines face due South.

Anyway, well done and good luck. I'm currently looking up the location of the available allotments in Adur district to see if they're likely to be OK or whether they're close enough to "Indian Country" to get damage/vandalism or not.

regards

JtFB

[chris_b]

JtFB

North-south is the traditional orientation, but others will catch the sun at different times of the day. If the rows face south-east (ie run sw as you observed) they catch the morning sun and it dries the vines out faster (better for preventing mildew) and photosynthesis gets going sooner.

Southfacing slopes increase solar illumination - 10 degrees is worth another 15%

Been on the (quick) course, so that makes me an expert!!

Get your name down for a plot - it'll be a while and you can always say no when one comes up

Chris

[fatbloke]

JtFB

North-south is the traditional orientation, but others will catch the sun at different times of the day. If the rows face south-east (ie run sw as you observed) they catch the morning sun and it dries the vines out faster (better for preventing mildew) and photosynthesis gets going sooner.

Ah, that might explain it then.

Southfacing slopes increase solar illumination - 10 degrees is worth another 15%

So I presume that by south facing, you mean that they'd run i.e. the line of the vines, east/west ?

I was thinking that the direction of the prevailing wind might help the vines dry, but as they'd be about 45 degrees off the vertical (the vertical being parallel with the 0 degrees meridian) that the vines or at least the face of the vines, would be benefiting from a greater amount of direct sunlight, going into shadow late afternoon/early evening - I also have to presume that the obverse, receiving less sunlight, would tend to have less flowers/grapes.

Been on the (quick) course, so that makes me an expert!!

Ah, quite seriously though, not really being into making my own grape wine, I'm just trying to make head/tail of what I've seen - particularly as what I've seen can only be described as a "professional" vineyard (the Nytimber group seem to have a very good reputation)

Get your name down for a plot - it'll be a while and you can always say no when one comes up

Chris

Well I was going to check to see where the location of the ones that do have vacancies were first - I can always just put my name down for one of the more local sites and just wait - Or we could be cheeky buggers and put one in my name and then put Clares name down (or her dad) for the other one that has the waiting list.


I was also thinking of looking around to see if theres any land sales for very small plots i.e. no larger than an acre, just to get an orchard going - problem being that cider and crab type apples are not so easy to get - eaters and cookers are a doddle. I could probably get enough readies together for a max of the 1 acre already mentioned but it would depend where it is as to how much it's likely to cost (you only have to factor in accessibility to transport for likely pricing - hence swathes of Sussex/Surrey/West Kent/East Hampshire being dearer than other parts - though there's bits with crap roads, no station access etc or just bits that are too small to do much with - thats where I'm looking as well as the local council).

Still, I'll just "watch this space" (pun intended )

regards

JtFB

[chris_b]

Well that was a bit of an effort.....

Big change of plan.

I'd done some quiet applications of glyphosate weedkiller and I was starting to think about how I'll arrange the rows on my plot. So at the start of April I rang the Vinehouse to see what their views are on spacing etc. In that conversation they let slip they still had some Rondo and would I like them. Did a quick calculation and asked if they could keep them until early May - which they could (cold store I guess). So then I had to go a bit into overdrive to get the site prepared NOW. I already had the results of the soil analysis - generally ok but could do with + a bit on pH and some manganese and boron. Interestingly phosphorus and zinc are high and sodium and sulphur are low. None of that is a problem for vines, but the low S squares with the note in the Ministry of Agriculture book on fertiliser that says S is dropping (seems cleaning up the coal-fired power stations helped)

Decided some calcified seaweed would sort the minerals out and nudge the pH up a bit. Also added a truck-load of compost and a load of sharp sand and gravel as the soil is on the heavy side. Then I found someone with a cultivator who would turn over the top foot or so. Amazing machine; vintage 1950, size of a small bed, lots of smoke/backfiring/dripping of petrol but it did the job in style.

Then I went to put in the posts a couple of feet or so and found there's a dense layer of stones about 18 inches down so I had to dig holes by hand, use a crowbar to loosen the stones, and scoop them out with an old bean can. I abandoned any plans to angle the rows to get N-S as lots of posts are required. Running 2 rows straight down the plot needs the minimum posts and gives me NE -SW which is ok for getting the morning sun to dry the vines off quickest.

Attached picture is the result (compare to the original post!) - 28 Rondo on SO4 and 3 Regent I propagated from my other plants. I'll train to double Guyot, and if it gets too leafy I can swap to Scott Henry which doubles the number of shoots, half growing downwards to suppress vigour.

Now I'm knackered, time for a glass of something ...

Chris

[SpudtheBinx]

Only just found this thread, I like what you are doing there chrisb. I am hoping to do something similar next year when I have organised my plots a little better

[lockwood1956]

Personally I would stick to double guyot and thin the shoots every time you visit thge allotment, great job, looking good. I havre large quantities of sulphur spray if you would like some, works out at around £1.50 per kilo (plus postage) 2.5 gram makes 1 litre of spray...you need to spray once you have shoots longer than 2 inches, and spray every 14 days...

I have a copy of the UK spray guide, i will see if i can converet it to pdf.

still in Germany at the moment

regards
Bob