Improvised Cellar

[Paulwales]

thinking about turning one of my granfathers out buildings into a cellar, the floor has rotted an gone through, below the depth is about four foot deep and noone can tell me for sure why it was built that way... I'm guessing it was to store root vegtables/apples for the mansion as it is the gardeners house assosiated to a victorian estate....if I was render it with some waterproofer and then cover it with 2 inch Polystyrine insulation, then on top 3/4inch ply as the floor to the shed, would this create the ideal envoment for wine to mature in demijohns and bottles

so temp would come from ground temp below (not sure what that would be the other alternative would be to case the whole space with insulation?

[ms67]

wow, how cool! good luck with your plans ... why stop there tho .... water supply, electricity supply, make a brewery and hey why not even a private bar! ah there goes my imagination again

[Paulwales]

Oh if only you knew! I have big dreams of aquiring the property one day, its also got 2 acres of 14foot stone walled orchard around it and lots of other fun stuff I could do, but for now on single parent benifit, I'll just have to be content with wine and beer squating.

Just last year the frost was so hard it froze my cider in the shed so I'm a little worried putting wine outside unless I can keep the temperature constant throu summer and winter

am I correct in thinking wine should be left to ferment or condition at between 5 an 10 degrees?

[lockwood1956]

am I correct in thinking wine should be left to ferment or condition at between 5 an 10 degrees?

you need to be around 24C for fermentation

[Paulwales]

Reading through the finishing tutorial again I should have said ageing as thats what I realy mean and I see its more like 10-15 degrees

[james]

I'm guessing it was to store root vegtables/apples for the mansion as it is the gardeners house assosiated to a victorian estate....if I was render it with some waterproofer and then cover it with 2 inch Polystyrine insulation, then on top 3/4inch ply as the floor to the shed, would this create the ideal envoment for wine to mature in demijohns and bottles

I'm in the process of designing an outbuilding (to be build next summer) that'll incorporate a small root cellar. In so doing, I've found out a thing or two about them, which may help you in your project:

Firstly, it may be root cellar you’ve found, but it may also be a raised floor to avoid damp within the main body of the building: the raised floor might have been to maintain a dry environment for things like grain (which was always stored in a raised wooden floor).

Don’t render with a waterproofing material. That will result in a build up of moisture which could be very detrimental to the structure of the building. The earth floor will act to provide a degree of moisture to the under floor area. This moisture will naturally dissipate through the brick (or stone) wall which is probably held together with lime mortar. The lime mortar allows the wall to breath (unlike a modern brick and cement mortar wall). Consequently, with a lime mortar’d wall, the wall itself acts to moderate the moisture levels within your cellar space- moistening it on dry days and absorbing excess moisture on wet days.

So with regards to the walls, I’d leave well alone.

Like you, I’m also considering using polystyrene (or “Kingspan”) insulation beneath a ply-board floor to insulate the top of the cellar.

I’d strongly recommend against casing the whole cellar in insulation for a number of reasons. Firstly, you need the flow of air to keep the cellar “sweet”, the soil and walls will breath moisture in and out of your space. However, most importantly, the earth beneath the storage space is the thing that regulates your cellar temperature- it’s a massive heat sink which keeps things cool in summer and warm in winter. So don’t insulate your cellar from the earth- it regulates you temperatures and moisture levels

Ideally, some ventilation is good. A traditional root cellar has a cool, moist air input, drawing air from ground level which discharges into the cellar at floor level, and a vent at the top of the cellar that allows old air to exit. Because my root cellar (similar to yours?) will be underneath a building, I intend to discharge spent air from the top of the cellar to the outdoors, not just to the inside of my building.

Ground temperature fluctuates around an annual average of about 10c (11c if you live down south, 9c if you live up north). The better your cellar, the closer to this average you can maintain.

Two other things you should get: a max/min thermometer and a humidity metre (both should be available at a good garden centre for a few quid)

I intend to use my root cellar to mature wine in bulk, and to lager beer (a slow, cool maturation/ fermentation proccess)

[Paulwales]

Hi James,
no internet at home yet, so I'll just do a quick reply for now... but I agree with all your points, I didnt mention the roof needs sealing hence the rotten floor, once its all sealed I'll have a better idea of damp Hummidity, also agree with the lime motar also would like to get familier with thee stuff as I have alot more jobs that I will be useing the stuff in time. will take some photos before I start just for interest but its a real tip at the moment

cheers