Thread for questions and discussion on new winemaker series

[Hippie]

Also, the temp might be a tad low.

[Jekteir]

Hippie -- thanks, yeah, I'm still slightly worried about that. I've put the bucket in a carboard box, and put towels around it inside the box, to try and keep it a bit warmer overnight. The temp in this room gets down to 16 degrees at night and up to 21 during the day.

But the pitched yeast is fermenting in the must, and I'm planning to check the SG every couple of days (is that frequently enough? don't want to look more than I have to) and move it at 1.020...


Jek

[Hippie]

Sounds good, maybe no need to check SG more than once a week.

Can you not move the bucket to a warmer room?

[Jekteir]

Looks like SG's gone from 1.082 to 1.070 in about 2 days.

Well, most of the rooms get reasonably cold at night. I could move it to a warmer room, but we use that room for eating in, and the smell is permeating the area quite a lot as it is

On the upside... The must is really fizzing, now. Looks like a constantly popping fizzy water. Actually smells quite a lot like a carbonated grape-drink... Unsurprisingly I guess!

Jek

[Hippie]

Sounds great then.

[Jekteir]

My Gosh

I have no idea how it happened so quickly, but I just stirred the must and checked the SG, and it's on 1.015! I had NO idea it could ferment this quickly, so I hope I haven't messed anything up. I took the reading three times, and, actually, I'll just go do it once more...

Yup, 1.015! If anyone is about, I would really appreciate thoughts on this. I am going to go right now and sterilised my 5gal demijohn and siphon tube, so I can rack the must into the secondary. Does that sound sensible?!

Jek


P.S. I put the hydrometer straight into the must -- didn't use a test jar (don't have one). But if the bubbles from fermentation were affecting it at all, they would have raised it up, not lowered it down, right? So it would have appeared falsely sugary, not de-sugared. In any case, I don't think bubbles were sticking to it particularly.

P.P.S. Are there any guidelines for when a wine-in-progress is 'safe' to drink, to test the flavour? I'm thinking of when the alcohol level (SG drop) is high enough to have killed almost all bacteria apart from the yeast?

[lockwood1956]

Sometimes ferments go incredibly quickly, it's not a problem, it simply means the yeasties were very happy.

And you can taste at any stage of ferment ()

[Jekteir]

Thanks -- there's another post (and follow-ons) which relate to my winemaking questions on this thread, which has been moved for tidiness's sake to http://www.winesathome.co.uk/forum/s...ead.php?t=1857 ... Any further thoughts on that thread'd be appreciated -- it turns into an involved discussion of SG!

Jek


P.S. Bob, I remember you told me my yeast was a low-foaming one. Is there a website with info on the various yeasts etc? Because I couldn't find any info on this yeast when I googled it, and it'd be really helpful right now to know the alcohol tolerance (and, for future, to look up possible yeasts first!).

[lockwood1956]

List of yeast types here

http://www.winesathome.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?t=945

Regards
Bob

[Jekteir]

Thanks for that link -- I did actually look on that list before, but couldn't find my yeast or its maker (Connoisseur's Choice red wine yeast, R2101) on the list. I bought it at art-of-brewing but didn't see it in their list on your page, and it isn't on Jack Keller's site -- have I missed it?

A bit of (very) good news -- the secondary ferment appears to be basically done! It got down to 0.098. I will check every day or so, still, to see if it falls further. It must have finished most of the ferment during the very first night after racking! I put together a rather complicated set of alcohol calculations with my added sugar and juice, on the SG page I linked to above.

So can I check my final steps?

-- avoid adding any sulphites yet, and keep watching the SG every day to see when it totally stops moving

-- I can leave this wine (under airlock) safely now for as long as I need without worrying about it spoiling? It should be about 11.8% alcohol.

-- Make any acidity/sweetening adjustments, then sulphite it straight away

-- A day later, if it needs it, I can fine it

-- Wait another day for fining, and rack again

Would it be worth letting settle in a bucket and briefly bulk aging after that for a few more weeks, before racking to bottles for storage/drinking/more aging?

I am picking up 50g packs of the different types of acids (lactic malic tartaric, already have citric), an 'acid reduction solution', and an acid tester, right now. I think I might take a few small samples of the wine, and try adjusting the acid/sweetness in each, to get some idea of the effects of the tweaking but I consider doing it grand-scale. Am I right to think adding more tannins now would be pointless/a mistake? But acid/acid reduction and sweetening are all OK?

Thanks all for all your help through this complicated (and vastly rewarding) process!

Jek


P.S. The sample I took during racking tasted pretty gooooood Can't wait to try it at full alc now...

[StockeyDAW]

So can I check my final steps?

-- avoid adding any sulphites yet, and keep watching the SG every day to see when it totally stops moving (check the Specific Gravity again for the next two days if the same you can go to the next step

-- I can leave this wine (under airlock) safely now for as long as I need without worrying about it spoiling? It should be about 11.8% alcohol. No - you will want to rack it off the dead lees (I rack it into a primary fermenter easier to degas that way unless you have a vacuum system), add sulphites, degas, add fining's -- then rack back into a sterilized glass carboy (DJ's and attach air locks - you can now let it sit in cool dark location for 10- 14 days until clear. Then rack off the settlement in the bottom of the carboy into a sterilized carboy and attach air lock. You are now in the bulk ageing stage - if not completely clear you may have to rack one or two more times each time adding small amounts of sulphite until you are satisfied with the quality of wine that you have produced -- then you will want to prepare again for racking or if you filter it is time to do that.

-- Make any acidity/sweetening adjustments, then sulphite it straight away (see above and below)

-- A day later, if it needs it, I can fine it see above for process)

-- Wait another day for fining, and rack again (see above for process)

Would it be worth letting settle in a bucket and briefly bulk aging after that for a few more weeks, before racking to bottles for storage/drinking/more aging? (see above
I am picking up 50g packs of the different types of acids (lactic malic tartaric, already have citric), an 'acid reduction solution', and an acid tester, right now. I think I might take a few small samples of the wine, and try adjusting the acid/sweetness in each, to get some idea of the effects of the tweaking but I consider doing it grand-scale. Am I right to think adding more tannins now would be pointless/a mistake? But acid/acid reduction and sweetening are all OK? (this part of the wine - mead making process is kind of in the advanced stage -- sure you can go out and get all these things but I would suggest that you take it cool for a period of time - do some reading - you may want to consider a pen type pH meter - it can do both pH and acid testing and you do not have to fight with the color change in the darker colored wines and Mead's. You can certainly get some citric, tartaric acid and test these according to your taste. The sweetness for sure can be adjusted with either a sugar solution purchased from the retail shop or you can make your own sugar syrup with 2 cups of cane sugar and 1 cup of water boiled for a couple of minutes and cooled to room temperature and poured and stirred slowly into the young wine or mead. Prior to that you will have to add sulphites and potassium sorbate for preservative and stabelizing the young wine.

Thanks all for all your help through this complicated (and vastly rewarding) process!

Jek

Cheers hop this helps. The longer you can wait the better it gets. Ageing really helps. Daw


P.S. The sample I took during racking tasted pretty gooooood Can't wait to try it at full alc now...[/QUOTE]

[lockwood1956]

great advice Daw

[Jekteir]

check the Specific Gravity again for the next two days if the same you can go to the next step

I think it's stopped at 0.996 now.

you will want to rack it off the dead lees (I rack it into a primary fermenter easier to degas that way unless you have a vacuum system)

Well, I'm not sure there's that much in the way of 'lees', but I guess there will be a bit of yeast residue etc. I strained it when racking to the secondary so it's pretty clean. There's not even much foam at all. But I'll rack it anyway.

add sulphites, degas, add fining's -- then rack back into a sterilized glass carboy

You mentioned that racking to the primary would help with degassing. Do you mean, just in terms of exposure to air? Should I let the wine fall and hit the bottom of the primary, so that more CO2 gets released?

What's the difference between a demijohn and a carboy? Are they interchangeable? My wine's currently in the secondary (5gal demijohn with bored top cap, no tap) and my primary's a 5gal bucket with airtight lid (no bore, no tap).

And I do all of this before I worry about adjusting the taste? i.e. I can degas, fine, rack, age, and then adjust taste with acid and maybe more juice?

I would suggest that you take it cool for a period of time - do some reading

That's fine, as long as there's no risk of my wine going bad/me missing my opportunity to get the taste right in the meantime! But, if I understand you correctly, I can correct the taste at any time after sulphiting, degassing, fining and racking, days or weeks into the future?

you may want to consider a pen type pH meter

Can you recommend one of these from online? I've been buying from art-of-brewing.co.uk and they don't seem to stock one.

The sweetness for sure can be adjusted with [...] a sugar solution [...]. Prior to that you will have to add sulphites and potassium sorbate for preservative and stabilising the young wine.

One thing I don't get -- what does sorbate do? If sulphites protect from bacteria, and finings clear the wine...what exactly is 'stabilising' other than those two things? Or does sorbate just 'support the process'?

I have just tried a bit of the wine (first taste since it hit 0.996) and it's much less sweet now, naturally, and also a little bitter. I shook all of the CO2 out of my sample, and that improved the bitterness, but I think it's still a little bland, possibly undersweet and even slightly watery. Would your diagnosis be (after rack, degas, fine, rack, stabilise) sweeten with juice and add acid to taste?

Which acid(s) would just suggest? -- My wine is mainly from supermarket pressed red grape juice but also was made with a straining bag of red eating grapes, cherries, blueberries, and a few blackberries.

On the upside, the wine does seem to be pretty potent, so that sugar has been put to good use! Thanks a lot for all this help -- hopefully I'm nearing the finish line!

Jek

[spritzer]

Wasnt sure where to post this, and didn't want to start a new thread.... but I just had to tell someone.

I started Wine number 1 today
The SG is 1.084

I wanted to start 2 DJ's of wine 1, but I didnt have enough apple juice .

So for the second one I used pineapple juice instead, and I reduced the sugar to 500grams... the SG is 1.076.

Will let you all know how it goes
Carole


PS... Bob .... Cracking instructions.... Thanks

[StockeyDAW]

I think it's stopped at 0.996 now.



Well, I'm not sure there's that much in the way of 'lees', but I guess there will be a bit of yeast residue etc. I strained it when racking to the secondary so it's pretty clean. There's not even much foam at all. But I'll rack it anyway.



You mentioned that racking to the primary would help with degassing. Do you mean, just in terms of exposure to air? Should I let the wine fall and hit the bottom of the primary, so that more CO2 gets released?

What's the difference between a demijohn and a carboy? Are they interchangeable? My wine's currently in the secondary (5gal demijohn with bored top cap, no tap) and my primary's a 5gal bucket with airtight lid (no bore, no tap).

And I do all of this before I worry about adjusting the taste? i.e. I can degas, fine, rack, age, and then adjust taste with acid and maybe more juice?



That's fine, as long as there's no risk of my wine going bad/me missing my opportunity to get the taste right in the meantime! But, if I understand you correctly, I can correct the taste at any time after sulphiting, degassing, fining and racking, days or weeks into the future?



Can you recommend one of these from online? I've been buying from art-of-brewing.co.uk and they don't seem to stock one.



One thing I don't get -- what does sorbate do? If sulphites protect from bacteria, and finings clear the wine...what exactly is 'stabilising' other than those two things? Or does sorbate just 'support the process'?

I have just tried a bit of the wine (first taste since it hit 0.996) and it's much less sweet now, naturally, and also a little bitter. I shook all of the CO2 out of my sample, and that improved the bitterness, but I think it's still a little bland, possibly undersweet and even slightly watery. Would your diagnosis be (after rack, degas, fine, rack, stabilise) sweeten with juice and add acid to taste?

Which acid(s) would just suggest? -- My wine is mainly from supermarket pressed red grape juice but also was made with a straining bag of red eating grapes, cherries, blueberries, and a few blackberries.

On the upside, the wine does seem to be pretty potent, so that sugar has been put to good use! Thanks a lot for all this help -- hopefully I'm nearing the finish line!

Jek

Here is a quick answer concerning the pen pH meters - this one is from California - the less expensive site that I can find for these instruments. good service on delivery. There must however be a location in GB for these? The attachment photo are the ones that I use - I have two; you also require the necessary solutions and storage liquids for the pH meters.

I will answer other questions separately. Cheers Daw

http://www.valleyvintner.com/