Thread for questions and discussion on new winemaker series

[Duffbeer]

No.. if it's a juice wine start in secondary ie demijohn and leave to ferment till finished topping up at the later stages, then rack leaving the sediment / lees behind, a short period ie 2 to 4 weeks on fine lees won't harm.

[kerosine]

Just as a point of note

I have tweaked Bob's Number 1 table wine again this evening and used Welch's white grape and Peach Juice with the Apple juice

I will keep you posted on the results

Smell's lush like!

And bottled the rose twist this weekend, again this is a really pleasant dry rose

[lockwood1956]

I think I will try multiplying the starter recipe to my container size, but probably increase the proportion of juice and also throw in some tannin at the beginning to make a bit of a heavier wine.

I wouldnt use tannin on the No 1 wine, it will not benefit, you might want to add 1 tsp citric acid to give it more oomph, but its not a deep enough wine or complex enough to benefit from tannin additions, to give it morre depth and complexity, up the ammount of grape juice added, and maybe add i litre of pineapple juice per gallon would likely add something, but it really cant be made into a "big" wine...its simply not that kind of recipe, make this and drink lots of it while i put together wine nO 5 or 6 steve Northernwiner is working on an icewine tutorial (cheers Steve) and I am going to do a port wine tutorial.

I now have a 5 gal bucket with lid, and a 5 gal 'barrel'-like thing with a bung and airlock stuck in the top. So I guess I will do the primary ferment in the bucket, either with the lid just resting on the top, or with a towel (that I've just finished running through the washer+dryer, to sterilise it a bit), and stir twice a day. I was thinking about a starting SG of 1.080, maybe. The temperature there moves between 60F-70F night/day, which I think should be OK?

I would use the lid rather than the towel

I'm surprised you say that the must should be moved to the secondary at 1.020 - that sounds like it would be later than 2 days in, if the wine usually stops around 1 or 0.990! Incidentally, between the primary and secondary, no racking occurs, right? Everything gets moved?

I would run the ferment totally in your primary bucket, but with the lid tightly fitted once wine gets to 1.020-1.010 with airlock fitted, just keep an eye on it...

I hope my plan doesn't sound too foolish/ambitious/misguided!

no experimentation is ok, just dont modify things too much to begin with

hope this helps
regards
Bob

[Duffbeer]

Just as a point of note

I have tweaked Bob's Number 1 table wine again this evening and used Welch's white grape and Peach Juice with the Apple juice

I will keep you posted on the results

Smell's lush like!

And bottled the rose twist this weekend, again this is a really pleasant dry rose

Nice one Russell, the supermarket juices make a pretty good quaffable wine, and a little tweaking and dabbling to your choice can be fun and beneficial

[Jekteir]

Hi Bob,

Thanks for the comments. Maybe I should ferment entirely grape juice, then, to get a heavier wine worthy of adding a bit of tannin? Or...heck. I could always buy a few additional red grapes and mush them up and throw them in with the skins too, just to add something!

I did have one other query about sanitising: since I'm just using the supermarket juice, presumably I can skip putting campden tablets in before fermentation, since there shouldn't be any wild yeast/bacteria in the juice (assuming I pour it straight from the carton)? I'd prefer not to spend a day at the start waiting for the tablets to do their thing if there's no need!

Jek

[Duffbeer]

Hi Bob,

Thanks for the comments. Maybe I should ferment entirely grape juice, then, to get a heavier wine worthy of adding a bit of tannin? Or...heck. I could always buy a few additional red grapes and mush them up and throw them in with the skins too, just to add something!

I did have one other query about sanitising: since I'm just using the supermarket juice, presumably I can skip putting campden tablets in before fermentation, since there shouldn't be any wild yeast/bacteria in the juice (assuming I pour it straight from the carton)? I'd prefer not to spend a day at the start waiting for the tablets to do their thing if there's no need!

Jek

Well David adjustments and dabbling is down to the indiviual, as for campden tablets for steralising, yes as a juice from carton you are OK not to add it.

[lockwood1956]

Dont add eating grapes or tannin, they will add not a lot

[Jekteir]

I notice you add tannin to wine number 2 though, which sounds a lot like what I'm thinking of doing? Or would the tannin be pointless if you weren't adding that litre of blueberry juice?

[Duffbeer]

My best advice here is to stick to the recipe, if you want to dabble then do it on the next batch, at least you'll get an idea of what went wrong, if that happens. Also if you're dabbling keep notes so you know for next time what you added and what benefit/problem it caused.

[lockwood1956]

Tannin will help red wine, but not white...tannin adds astringency, which has no place in white wine, but in red, it would likely be a good addition, just be judicious with the amount

to be honest , if I were you I wouldn't be starting with a 5 gallon batch, you need to do some winemaking skill building followed by some experimenting, and I think that would be best served with several 1 gallon batches. to much embelishment of recipes in the early stages of learning your art is likely not a good thing, it is something new winemakers tend to want to do (i know i did) but really, its best to learn your art making easy to make easy to drink wines, and develop your skills as you progress, best to have the first batches totally drinkable and shareable

[Jekteir]

Well, I was going by what DuffBeer said:

Supermarket red grape juice should give the effect of a light red, the lack of tannin from the skins will prevent it being any more substantial.

So hopefully... this will be red? I'm using red grape juice. I thought that by adding tannin I could additionally overcome the problem described above.

[Mamgiowl]

Confusing ain't it Jektair?

I think the best thing you can do is follow the recipe as is. As you're doing a 5 gallon batch, perhaps you could split off a gallon and try your variations on that. That way you have something to compare and can then see if your idea worked.

Welcome to the Forum BTW

[lockwood1956]

I thought that by adding tannin I could additionally overcome the problem described above.

It would likely add a little more to it, but silk purses cannot be made from sows ears

it takes more than tannin alone, you need phenols (flavour and bouquet compounds) that just aren't present in the juice..

don't get me wrong, it will make a reasonable quaffing wine, but attempting to turn it into a "big red" will result in disappointment, and frustration, and in the early days this should be avoided.

the white in wine No1 will make a very decent dry white table wine, the recipe for No 2 is a light bodied semi sweet wine, and because of the lightness of the ingredients, cannot produce more, however the purpose of these wines is to build winemaking technique, and as such are worthwhile exercises, I'm hoping to achieve good basic technique, to allow you to move on to more complex wines, remember once you manufacture a big red (later in the series) you wont be able to drink it for at least a year!. these wines give you something you can drink immediately, and can be replicated easily, while your big red ages.....but you need to develop good winemaking skills for now.

see I sound head-masterly again now....EEK

were are you located Jekteir?

we import winemaking grapes from Italy each year in September, take some of those ( £7 per box 1 box=1 gallon~) they make fabulous wine and we are having a grape-fest this year in West Yorkshire, you can come up, process grapes, stay over and drink the 06 vintage, you are most welcome

or we culd meet you somewhere onthe way back up north...we get them from London

[Jekteir]

OK, thanks. I will experiment a little and try to find a half-way house : ) To be honest, anything which tastes good and is drinkable, alcoholic and kind of red, I will be happy with! I'm very much a glass- (demijohn?)-is-half-full type of person so I'm guaranteed to be pleased with myself, no matter what foul concoction I might actually end up creating : )

I actually live in London, so it might be really good to join you and collect some grapes if possible this september, if I've perfected my skills to the stage where I'm capable of leaving a wine to age for a few years! Coming up north could be fun -- will have to see closer to the time, of course, as where I'll be then is less-than-certain!

I will definitely let you know how the wine goes: perhaps I will document it with some photos and a forum thread!

All best,

Jek


P.S. One last newbie question: if I crush a campden tablet into water and dissolve it, and spray it onto the surfaces of my barrel/swill some around a bit so it gets on all of it and pour it out, then let it dry for 15 mins -- can I put my must in and add the yeast straight away? Or will I still need a grace-period before the yeast, just from the small amount of sulfites dried on the walls of the barrel?

[lockwood1956]

generally you would add yeast 24 hours after sulphite, but if you rinse it should be fine.

using sulphite solution is easier, and cheaper (a lot)

see here

http://www.winesathome.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?t=1561

best of luck with your brew I'm sure it will be fine